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  69

  No Absolute Truth

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this one is for the politically correct crowd: .

  is there no 'absolute truth'?

  do you want to live that one out?

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  And God proceeded to speak to Moses saying, (inter alia)

  You must not kill.

  You must not commit adultery.

  You must not steal.

  You must not desire your fellowmans house, wife, slaves bull ass or anything.

  Now go over there and kill us some heathens, take their land, rape their wives and daughters, and keep their slaves bulls ass and everything (or else kill all of them as well)

  Read that little story somewhere, doesnt prove anything but thought I'd share.

  Laws against killing, rape, and stealing arent absolute. they are definatly not inherent in every one of us or else they wouldn't be such popular pastimes.

  They are however a groups best defense against individuals seeking advantage at the cost of other individuals. An individual who steals form others isnt producing new goods he is merely transferring from others to himself, not good for the group as a whole so it is discouraged. An individual who kills others for his own advantage is also weakening the group, unless it advantages the group then it may be condoned. And rape, amongst other things, attempts to take away the womens right to select the father of her children (and women generally choose the strongest or healthiest or wisest or best singers) which right is for the benefit of the group.

  A group has the rights to make laws, and these laws are generally simlar over the past few thousand years cause humans basically havent changed much, just their tools have. but these laws arent absolute. e.g. is incest absolutely bad?? but in some cultures it was encouraged in royal bloodlines to maintain purity.

  edited to add: The 10 commandments only applied within the group, and protected the group. It wasnt in the groups interest for them to apply outside the group as they wanted to kill their neighbours and take their land so this was not outlawed, or seen as immoral.

  cheers

  pak
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  18

  What leaving really means

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  recently my family had occasion to attend a function held in our honor, an event commemorating a certain achievement.

  it was thrown by close relatives, witnesses all.

  it included parents, grandparents, cousins, siblings, auties and uncles.

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  for myself, if I die tomorrow I know I have achieved one thing in life, my kids wont be raised in a cult like I was

  cheers
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  17

  Can someone of the 144,000 get kicked out after entering heaven ???

  by The_Replacement in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so, if someone is of the 144,000, dies, and supposedly goes to heaven, is it still possible for them to be misled, or kicked out, thus needing another replacement.

  if the answer is yes, i guess the 144,000 will never be completed, in fact eventually they will have 144,000 replacements, then 144,000 replacements replacing the replacements, doh !

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  just a minute

  <<bangs head against brick wall a few times to start thinking like a jdub again>>

  no, once in heaven you are sealed and god knows you'll never sin (no fun sins possible in heaven)

  same with those on earth after final test, cause otherwise everyone would eventually sin and die, even in it was in trillions of years
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  19

  DaVinci Code & "Mankind's Search for God"

  by proplog2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower doesn't want its members to see the da vinci code.

  probably for the same reason they don't want its members to read their book "mankind's search for god".

  they went to the trouble of researching and publishing this attractive well illustrated book.

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  I liked the James book and was told by a gilead grad that it was out of use because the main writer had been dfed not long after writing it. Not sure how true that is, someone else here might know.

  I remember reading the predecessor to the search book, a yellow "What has religion done for mankind" I think was the title. It traced all religions back to Nimrod and babylon, total bs now but I lapped it up at the time. Great mythology.
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  5

  Zealous Churches ... and the Lazy Watchtower

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  to many, the notion that churches in "christendom" could be zealous - in contrast to the indifference of the watchtower society -.

  might seem radical.

  however, there is a recent, powerful example concerning marriage and divorce.. .

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  That combined with wives not being allowed to have an opinion should set witnoid couples up for a long and happy (for the hubby) union.

  Oh, and if you get divorced without grounds then no more sex ever or you'll die.
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  106

  Another poll: raised in or came in?

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  someone asked a question in the "what generation are you" thread:.

  were you "raised in the truth," or did you "come into the truth?".

  i was raised..

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  born and bred

  never really that keen on it but didn't manage to get out till I was 30ish
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  111

  Sagan and anyone who care toreply

  by jw in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  !.

  only intelligent replys.. 2.no big bang replys.. what is your theory on how humans came into existence?

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  Littletoe - what is more important our perceptions or the real world going on around us (is that your real question)?

  imho, or should I say imor (in my own reality)

  what is reality - your own reality is whatever you choose it to be, this is important to individuals, in most cases more important than the real reality

  however the real world is what decides whether you die of something nasty dispite refusing to recognise the symptoms

  the problem is that reality can be a harsh lens to look through, it can also be a bit elusive

  so the real reality is more important, although noone knows what it is

  cheers

  qcmbr - perhaps if you knew the cat better you would be able to work it out, cause and effect - and also mountains eroding and stars exploding arent chaos conquering order, they are part of the order

  cheerio
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  111

  Sagan and anyone who care toreply

  by jw in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  only intelligent replys.. 2.no big bang replys.. what is your theory on how humans came into existence?

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  On the knowledge versus proof thing - (hopefully I can put this right - if you dont get it at least I "know" what I mean )

  I am on the side that to "know" something requires proof

  when someone has an experience this may be proof to him and therefore they feel they know something to be true, so they have their proof and this leads to the knowledge

  other people wisely do not accept other peoples experience as proof unless they already agree with the fact being established or they for some reason have great trust in the other person

  I say wisely because most people are delusional to at least some extent (what me, no I'm not overweight) and there are a lot of people in hospitals who have accepted experiental evidence that GOD exists and and is sitting in the corner wearing pink pyjamas

  so when you say to me you had pie for dinner last night I accept that without requiring any more proof, when you tell me about your experiental evidence for God and that I must change my life to please him then I set a much higher burden of proof on you

  when I left the witnesses I took a blank piece of paper and wrote on it everything important that I "KNEW" to be true, I could only come up with three things, and now I am not so sure about those

  cheers
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  111

  Sagan and anyone who care toreply

  by jw in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  !.

  only intelligent replys.. 2.no big bang replys.. what is your theory on how humans came into existence?

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  If God made all the beautiful little creatures, and us, he sure dont seem to be bragging about it. He keeping pretty quiet for the last few millenium. Which is quite understandable imho given the world is a bit of a mess.

  On the other hand if there was no creator we would expect to hear ... ... . .. .silence which is what we've got, and a messy stumbling around kind of world.

  So unless our disinterested creator wants to put his hand up in a meaningful non-crap way (which naturally excludes 2000 year old compilations of scrolls) I have to go with the blue pill.

  But fwiw I think that noone really knows as we weren't there.

  The highest probability is that we are part of a self-aware (although delusional) computer simulation.

  Cheers
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  15

  My son made me proud the other day.

  by lowden in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my eldest son (19 in oct') went for coffee he other day with a former associate of his who is still a jw.

  the conversation eventually came around to spiritual things and his friend, matt, started firing the questions.

  how he felt about the faith, would he go back, did he still believe?.....

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  Well, thanks y'all.

  Been lurking a while and decided it was time to start making some noise.

  Cheers